# What is going on with all these Times clones?

So, I've been loading Times in my documents via the following method

``````\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{mathptmx}
\usepackage{tgtermes}
``````

So as to get the math support of `mathptmx` but the better kerning and such of `tgterms`. However today I noticed there are a TON of Times packages on CTAN:

Times: Package: `mathptmx`. "The font that is actually provided is URW Nimbus Roman (A Times clone). An enhanced version is available with the TeX Gyre Termes font."

Nimbus Roman: Package: `nimbus`. "Nimbus Roman is a clone of Times. An enhanced version is available with the TeX Gyre Termes font."

TeX Gyre Termes: Package: `tgtermes`. "The TeX Gyre Termes family of fonts is based on the Nimbus Roman No9 L family, but heavily extended."

So I thought that `mathptmx` was a version of `nimbus` with better math support, and `tgtermes` was an upgraded version without math support. Oddly when I tried to load `nimbus` in TeXLive 2012 it couldn't find the sty file.

Then today I find:

New TX: packages `newtxtext`,`newtxmath`. "The text font provided is URW Nimbus Roman (A Times clone). The package is mostly for math support. The fonts are enhanced versions of the TX Fonts. Other implementations of the Times font is mathptmx and TeX Gyre Termes."

Loading these I can't see a visible difference from the way I had been loading my fonts. There is obviously a difference though as I wound up with one line getting shoved to a new page with New TX and not my old font packages.

Then to cap it all off, I find there is a `times` package that isn't listed in the LaTeX Font Catalogue. I seem to recall hearing it was outdated?

Can someone explain the relationships of all these packages?

-
This seems like a question for Typography.SE! –  Silex Oct 31 '12 at 15:31
AFAIK the `times` package is not listed because it's deprecated. –  tohecz Oct 31 '12 at 15:34
@Silex Possibly, but I think several of them are the same typeface with different implementations? I'm using the blindlipsum package to print out a page with each now. –  Canageek Oct 31 '12 at 15:35
@tohecz I thought so too, but it is in TeXLive while `nimbus` isn't. Just an odd choice on TeXLive's part? –  Canageek Oct 31 '12 at 15:36
@canageek you missed out `tex-gyre-math-termes` which is a free extension of `tex-gyre-termes` which is a derivative of `Nimbus Roman No9 L`. `times` (either from adobe or from m\$) costs real money; `nimbus roman` is urw's version, and is (now) available royalty-free. `tex-gyre-termes` extends it to include several other alphabets, and remains free (it was funded by tex user groups). `mathptm[x]` hacks together some times or other, with various other characters, to make a set usable for maths; supersedes `times` (the package) but never really reliable. `t-g-termes-math` does that job "right". –  wasteofspace Oct 31 '12 at 16:01

Fonts and LaTeX is always complicated, also because of the (even more complicated) intellectual property laws surrounding fonts.

There is quite a lot of Times packages, most of which are ancient. The more recent packages are `tgtermes` and `newtx`. The latter has a focus on small improvements and providing great maths support. The TeX gyre project is focused on providing great quality Type1 and (mainly) OpenType fonts.

# Packages

• `mathptmx`, `times` and `nimbus`. These files come from `psfonts`. An older package providing several postscript fonts for use in LaTeX. My understanding is that `mathptmx` provides the URW Nimbus Roman font with added maths support. `times` and `nimbus` are similar, but do not have maths support.
• `newtxtext` and `newtxmath` are improved versions of the TX Fonts, which are versions of Nimbus Roman. They also have good maths support.
• `tgtermes` provides TeX Gyre Termes, the result of a project to provide high quality fonts. It's based on URW Nimbus Roman, which was donated to the project.

You could also add `stix` and `xits`. –  marczellm Jan 11 at 18:07